[PAX] let's talk

[Barnabas]

So i've been pondering abortion latley and thought I would come hear to ask, what is the secular view for pro-abortion?

why Is abortion considered a viable option for any reason other then life ending occurences.

secondly does abortion take away the right of an individual to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness?

this is a pax thread and as such it doesn't need to see negative attacks on either side of the debate just questions and answers.

thanks.

[Duty]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

what is the secular view for pro-abortion?

By the very way you have framed this question, you have spoken to me every word, every premise you come to this topic with. It's not a bad thing, in fact it is good I caught it, because if you desire to understand the topic in full, instead of retreating to only your own opinion, then I highly recommend a full examination of the very question you start with.

The world is overpopulated and not everyone is cut out for raising a child, be it because of economic means or irresponsibility.
However, everyone is cut out for sex.

Secondly, anti-abortion cases take away the right to life liberty and happiness.
Why should someone have their life taken away from them, simply because some religious whack-jobs think everybody should follow their religious teachings?
Why should someone have their liberty (freedom) to abort curtailed, simply because of a religious teaching that they do not believe?
Why should someone have their happiness curtailed in life because their partner (or themselves) got pregnant before they were ready (if they ever would be) to have a child?

[BenW]

What about the secular view for pro-life?

Originally Posted by BenW

What about the secular view for pro-life?

Same as the religious, except they don't validate their views with religious quotations.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Duty

By the very way you have framed this question, you have spoken to me every word, every premise you come to this topic with. It's not a bad thing, in fact it is good I caught it, because if you desire to understand the topic in full, instead of retreating to only your own opinion, then I highly recommend a full examination of the very question you start with.

I simply look to see the view from another perspective, I know the common religious view that life is sacred, however I would like to see what those whom don't have that view would say.

I've no want of my opinion in this topic only yours.

In which case, you're after the Secular view for Pro-Life rather than the Secular View, Pro Abortion.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Shai Gar

The world is overpopulated and not everyone is cut out for raising a child, be it because of economic means or irresponsibility.
However, everyone is cut out for sex.

Secondly, anti-abortion cases take away the right to life liberty and happiness.
Why should someone have their life taken away from them, simply because some religious whack-jobs think everybody should follow their religious teachings?
Why should someone have their liberty (freedom) to abort curtailed, simply because of a religious teaching that they do not believe?
Why should someone have their happiness curtailed in life because their partner (or themselves) got pregnant before they were ready (if they ever would be) to have a child?

well the point of this thread is to take the religious aspects outof the subject.

what of those whom don't agree with abortion and arn't religious.

Does the child have the right to life, does the child have the right to liberty, doe the child have the chance to pursue happiness.

[Duty]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

I simply look to see the view from another perspective, I know the common religious view that life is sacred, however I would like to see what those whom don't have that view would say.

I've no want of my opinion in this topic only yours.

I'm trying to tell you that by the very way you frame your question, you expect a certain set of answers, and will likely reject anything else.

Your post is beautifully ironic: you have made a PAX thread and said you want to understand the other side, but your post asks the question in a way that is inflammatory to the people you are trying to reach out to.


Basically, in a very pleasing way, you say one thing but perform another.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Duty

I'm trying to tell you that by the very way you frame your question, you expect a certain set of answers, and will likely reject anything else.

Your post is beautifully ironic: you have made a PAX thread and said you want to understand the other side, but your post asks the question in a way that is inflammatory to the people you are trying to reach out to.

well then i apologise, I had no intention of inflaming anyone. could you tell me what was inflamatory.

[Duty]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

well the point of this thread is to take the religious aspects outof the subject.

what of those whom don't agree with abortion and arn't religious.

Does the child have the right to life, does the child have the right to liberty, doe the child have the chance to pursue happiness.

See, you're framing your questions in the same way. A pro-choice activist won't view it as a child: just a collection of cells that has the potential to become a sentient lifeform.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Duty

See, you're framing your questions in the same way. A pro-choice activist won't view it as a child: just a collection of cells that has the potential to become a sentient lifeform.

so when does this collection of cells become a child then? is it after birth, some time before, if so how much?

Birth.

[Duty]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

so when does this collection of cells become a child then? is it after birth, some time before, if so how much?

THAT is the whole issue that is at stake. Now you're getting at it.

[Barnabas]

well has a viable number been set, i know most doctors won't touch a women somany months in unless absolutley neccesary.

[Duty]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

well has a viable number been set, i know most doctors won't touch a women somany months in unless absolutley neccesary.

By US law it is the second trimester and beyond.

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Duty

By US law it is the second trimester and beyond.

but what would you say, or do you feel qulafied to say anything.

[Duty]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

but what would you say, or do you feel qulafied to say anything.

All I could do is list a bunch of theories: religious, scientific, political, philosophic, and the like, and apply them to this specific case. The only thing I would contribute to the conversation is "Which theory do I privilege and like most?"

As far as the theory I do privilege though, I would say it is the theory of context-driven decision making. Whether an abortion should be performed or not is purely based on the context of the situation.

[Fake Plastic Alice]

Personally i prefer the coat hanger method due to the crazies outside the clinic...they're getting a little use to my face...

But when i don't have one handy this works just as well, if not better:

[Barnabas]

Originally Posted by Shai Gar

Birth.

whats the difference between a infant at birth and a infant of two weeks prior? also what of less and what of more?